Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/François Bazaramba

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. @Stuartyeates: You may consider the move to Barazamba case by using Template:requested move. (non-admin closure) ミラP 03:50, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

François Bazaramba

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François Bazaramba (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This BLP accuses its subject of genocide. The claim is sourced to an article in a language I don't speak, and I'm unable to evaluate its reliability. I feel that if the source is reliable then Mr Barazamba is probably notable and the article is probably appropriate, but if not then I think it should be summarily deleted. —S Marshall T/C 23:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. —S Marshall T/C 23:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. —S Marshall T/C 23:23, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

• Comment The 1st source is Yle, which looks pretty reputable at a glance. Google Translate works reasonably well on it. A site search of yle yields also this source and some others in English. Between the article and the (Gtranslated) source, it's my best understanding that the the case is of legal interest because they didn't accuse him of murdering anyone himself, but of inciting others to genocide. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 00:03, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
• Could I direct your attention to Machine translation#Major issues, please? All the best—S Marshall T/C 01:32, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• You'd asked whether the article was potentially libelous. The machine translation adequately supports a "no" answer, in my experienced opinion (I work in a country where I don't know the language well, and use GT frequently). I also gave you a source written in English from the same news organization, and a search link to find more. I end with reasons (partly speculative) of why the Finnish language source might (or might not) be preferable to that in English. I'm not sure I understand what your concern is here. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 09:17, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• Comment: This BBC News item summarises the same material as the article. However I wonder if this is more notable as a case article than as an individual biography? AllyD (talk) 07:43, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Law-related deletion discussions. AllyD (talk) 07:48, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Finland-related deletion discussions. AllyD (talk) 07:48, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• Yes, thank you. There's notability here but I agree that a case article feels preferable to a biography. I'd be a little less uncomfortable about the allegation of genocide if there was a reliable source for the outcome of the appeal.—S Marshall T/C 15:57, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• There is quite a detailed timeline of the charges through to rejected appeals to the Appeal Court and Supreme Court, both in 2012 ("Trial International") and a 2019 Rwanda newspaper item about a rejected bid for early release ([1]). AllyD (talk) 18:10, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
• Also, shouldn't the state news of Finland (a country e.g. given a 100/100 rating from Freedom House) be reliable, at least for events in Finland and their significance in Finnish law? Russ Woodroofe (talk) 18:31, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• I would consider that Yle is highly reliable; but in my view a machine translation of Yle is unreliable.—S Marshall T/C 19:35, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• Yle has some articles also in English (as well as in Finnish and Swedish; they have news portals in all 3 languages). Unfortunately, the most comprehensive article (speaking to the legal significance) seems to only be in Finnish, but I added an English-language article concerning the final denial of his appeal to the article. Perhaps you assumed that yle articles would all be in Finnish? Russ Woodroofe (talk) 19:46, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

• I did mistakenly presume they'd publish in Finnish or Swedish, yes. It remains to resolve whether this should be a case article as Ally suggests.—S Marshall T/C 03:32, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

• Move to Barazamba case or whatever legal cases are called in this jurisdiction, since the coverage is about the legal case and the legal precident, not the actual person. Stuartyeates (talk) 08:01, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
• Speedy keep, as the libel concerns of the nominator have been met. I agree that the move (with redirect) is a sensible idea. Would the article talk page be a better place to discuss it? Russ Woodroofe (talk) 17:08, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
• Keep - notable for his abuses as well as the landmark Finnish trial, which could arguably have its own article as well. For now, this will suffice. I added more info about the crimes - in trying to not violate BLP, there was nothing about what he was convicted of. I think the info is presented fairly as reported by the BBC. I also clarified in the lede why the case was groundbreaking. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 20:37, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
• Keep. Hyperbolick (talk) 21:02, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.