Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Serbian months
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. This page is being moved to Slavic calendar, while the pages in Category:Slavic calendar will be redirected there. Please rewrite the article to make it fit the topic. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 05:02, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
- Serbian months (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Serbia-related deletion discussions. No such user (talk) 15:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. No such user (talk) 15:44, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
This supposed list of twelve Serbian months is, at worst, a blatant WP:MADEUP, and at best, list of unnotable words. The month names are based on a single source: sr:Mile Nedeljković: Srpsko nasleđe, br. 9, 1998., by a Serbian journalist and ethnologist. Srpsko nasleđe (Serbian heritage) was a short-lived magazine from 1990s, not a scientific paper. None of the words is listed even in the comprehensive Serbian dictionary of Matica srpska.
The more I research, the more I'm sure it's a blatant hoax: if I search for "ležitrava", it yields a grand total of 11 ghits, forums of Wikipedia mirrors, and 0 GBook hits. In the issue 9 of Srpsko nasleđe there is no such article, and indeed, "ležitrava" is not even mentioned on its website [1]. No such user (talk) 07:11, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- Update: the referenced article does exist [2]. The author does address the history of Slavic calendar and month names, but does not ascribe them to specifically Serbian traditions. It's a vague narrative on how Slavic month names came about, without references. The actual spelling for 'april' is lažitrava, and it has certain web circulation, but still including chiefly forums, blog and news articles on slow days. For example, the most "reliable" news article is this, which starts with statement that "The word calendar has its roots in our language, because it is made from our two famous words wikt:kolo and wikt:dar". No such user (talk) 07:42, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
Kukulj, -Article creator
[edit]---Pray tell, If these are not the traditional names for Serbian months, what are they? I have provided many different sources for the names of the months, not just 'Srpsko nasleđe'.'Godišnji običaji u Srba - Mile Nedeljković. Vuk Karadžić - Beograd, 1990' is just one example.
These are the traditional names for the 12 months of the year in the Serbian language, there mostly historical records in the form of traditional songs, books, poems and stories.
Moreover, this brings up the question, what do you think Serbians used before they started using the Latin names?
I have provided a comparison of the names of months in various Slavic languages; you can quite clearly see that all of the Serbian names for the months are repeated in one form or another in the other Slavic languages. For example; Ležitrava in Serbian, Travanj in Croatian, Treven in Macedonian, Mali Treven in Slovenian. The sources are not of the same opinion when it comes to the spelling of this word, but 'Lažitrava' gets more hits than 'Ležitrava', I was going to add them both but didn't know how to put one under the other without changing the table. This is an important part of Serbian culture, and there should be an article on it.
My suggestion is this; This article needs to be improved, not deleted. Different regions of Serbia had different names for the months, and these need to be added. If you are interested, or for that matter, if anybody else in interested, research needs to be done on the matter and included into this article. Kukulj (talk) 08:04, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- Delete BUT please read. Lists of words in other languages are not usually encyclopedic; this article seems to fail WP:N. It is possible that the content could be salvaged in the context of month names in Slavic languages, through I am not exactly sure where it could go. Probably Slavic calendar, a top article at Category:Slavic calendar, seems like a notable concept. Moth articles in it should probably go, and if this is deleted I'd encourage the deleting admin to go and prod/mass AfD the articles in this category. I'd also encourage User:Kukulj to start work on Slavic calendar, after familiarizing him/herself with WP:N and WP:OR policies. I find this topic somewhat interesting, and I could help review the new article if it is put at WP:AFC or draftspace/sandbox. You may want to request that the deleted content is userfied.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:56, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- Don't quite understand.
The comparison of months was just to add a nice touch. I don't understand what's wrong with the article; it shows what the months in the Serbian language are; there are almost identical articles for all the Slavic languages, and those articles have LESS sources and information than this one, so if this is deleted, they should be too. If they aren't, it will become clear that 'No such user' has a problem with me, or Serbia in general.
However, I do agree with your Slavic calendar idea, it's interesting. If all of these articles are deleted, I would be more than happy to start Slavic calendar User:Piotrus, yes, I would like to request for the deleted content to be userfied, and I will start at WP:AFC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kukulj (talk • contribs) 11:05, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- That is exactly what Piotrus said, that all the articles should be deleted and the information should be put into a new article, Slavic calendar. FkpCascais (talk) 11:52, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with Piotrus that the whole Category:Slavic calendar violates WP:WINAD and should be pruned. Also, the whole concept of Slavic month names is notable, but the reader should be served with a single article (Slavic calendar or Slavic months) explaining the history and side-by-side comparison of month names in various languages and other calendar data, not bare tables. There are scholarly articles (and I'm sure a deeper research could find more) about the topic, such as [3], [4], [5] (the latter could be used as model for our article). So, I suppose the answer could be merge and fix/expand of all these articles into one, rather than outright delete.
That being said, I'm still unconvinced with the veracity of the single source (Nedeljković) on which this article is built upon. It is a broad narrative in an entertaining historical magazine (likely a WP:OR by its author, or at least a primary source) turned into a system of "Serbian month names" which is simply not there. But that might be an issue for a later editing. No such user (talk) 14:47, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- Agree that all the articles in that category should be merged into one. Slavic names for months might be a better title, unless the "slavic calendar" was ever somehow different in structure to the gregorian calendar, in which case that could be discussed too. - filelakeshoe (t / c) 15:17, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
- Definitely, I'm 100% for this idea. They should be merged into one article. I think that Slavic calendar would be more appropriate than 'Slavic names for months'; more information would be included that just the names. Also, there already exists an article, https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenski_kalendar, with translations in many different languages, so it would be very simple to add an English version.
Kukulj (talk) 12:59, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- RoySmith (talk) 12:50, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
- Rename or Merge to Slavic calendar per Kukulj and a lesser degree filelakeshoe. --Bejnar (talk) 00:04, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
- Rename or Merge to Slavic calendar. 1292simon (talk) 00:42, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.