Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Minoo Majidi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep under the new title as evolved during this AfD. Star Mississippi 13:43, 21 October 2022 (UTC) Edit: by "the new title" I meant to say that Death of.. what was kept, that consensus had evolved that her death was notable. Should this change further, that's a matter for editorial discussion and can be handled through normal channels. Star Mississippi 14:20, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Minoo Majidi

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Minoo Majidi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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A woman killed in the September 2022 Iranian protests. While tragic, her death isn't as notable as one like Mahsa Amini's. This article might be better as an entry in a list of protesters who were killed during the 2022 protests. Waddles 🗩 🖉 01:08, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Women, and Iran. Waddles 🗩 🖉 01:08, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
• Delete absolutely not notable. 4nn1l2 (talk) 01:14, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I think that her daughters actions as detailed in the 'iconic imagery' section, give this article a level of notability. A way of improving it would be adding a free-use image that is being described. Marleeashton (talk) 01:19, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Keep: I'd argue otherwise. Her burial was a place of protest and her daughter's image has become a symbol in this movement. Various major media outlets have directly mentioned her name and circulated the image of her daughter. There are many faces to this movement, while Mahsa Amini remains the main face, she is not the only one as Iranian women are leading this fight forward and sacrificing their lives over it. Exhaustedgolsa (talk) 01:53, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

@Exhaustedgolsa: I think she would only be notable because of the one photo, which isn't enough to support a whole article about a person since photos go viral on the internet regularly. She being mentioned in news articles also wouldn't meet WP:SIGCOV as it's only a mention, not a article which is focused around her. Waddles 🗩 🖉 04:50, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

There are hundreds of people being killed, only few of them get their photos published on western media outlets. The photos of those killed don't go viral regularly, as we are speaking about the Middle East, not a meme or someone being killed in Switzerland. The fact that she is even mentioned anywhere, speaks volumes of her notability. Exhaustedgolsa (talk) 07:49, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Delete all I find are sources connected to the revolution. She's not notable otherwise. Long way from GNG. Oaktree b (talk) 02:42, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
• Keep per WP:EVENT and move to Killing of Minoo Majidi - our standard of notability is not whether her death is as notable as the Death of Mahsa Amini, but whether sufficient sources exist. There is international coverage that provides context for her death and how she has also had an WP:EFFECT by becoming an icon in the ongoing protests, e.g. AFP, EL Pais, The Guardian, The Telegraph, BBC (brief mention). The recent nature of the news, as well as the challenging news reporting environment also seems to favor keeping this article for now, per the WP:RAPID section of the WP:EVENT guideline. Beccaynr (talk) 04:20, 14 October 2022 (UTC) sources added to comment Beccaynr (talk) 04:24, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

@Beccaynr: The AFP source talks about her along with two other victims, which might be SIGCOV but I don't know if it's really enough to support an entire article, while The Guardian and BBC are very brief mentions. El Pais and The Telegraph are paywalled so I can't access those. Waddles 🗩 🖉 04:44, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

As an event, we have biographical, context, and legacy information, covered internationally in diverse sources, so notability appears supported, particularly per WP:RAPID, which suggests reworking the article into an event article as an alternative to deletion.

• The AFP source begins with the context of women's leadership in the protests, describes details related to Majidi's death and includes a description the "image that has gone viral on social media" posted by one of her daughters. The article is also titled "Hadis, Minoo and Ghazaleh: the women victims of Iran's crackdown", which seems to help emphasize the significance of Majidi in this report.
• The El Pais article is titled "The faces of repression in Iran", and reports on four women, including Majidi, beginning with "Like Nika Shahkarami and Hadis Najafi, Minoo Majidi was not a rebel, just an ordinary Iranian woman", describes information provided by the Hengaw Organization for Human Rights about her death, and the "Iconic image of the daughter of Minoo Majidi" (this is a quote from a tweet included in the article), stating "The bleak image of this solemn but proud young woman has become yet another symbol of the pain suffered by women who live in a country where cutting one’s hair is a sign of grief and resistance." This is secondary coverage supporting the WP:EFFECT of the event.
• The Guardian also notes and includes the viral social media image, after stating, "It is a movement that has been nurtured online, where Iranian and foreign celebrities tweet and hashtag their support, and powerful images carry protesters’ messages far beyond their own borders." This is further secondary coverage of the WP:EFFECT.
• The Telegraph is reporting on the arrest of a protester who ate in a restaurant without a hijab, with the image going viral online, and notes the viral social media image of Majidi's daughter happening around the same time.
• The BBC News report is a brief mention, but there is context, e.g. "Iran's Human Rights Activists News Agency (HRANA) estimates 222 people have been killed in or after the widespread demonstrations sparked by the death in custody of Mahsa Amini, 22, detained for allegedly breaking rules on headscarves", as well as the BBC description of their investigative methods to identify victims and the challenging news reporting environment.

It seems that the article could be further developed as an event article based on the available sources and the reasonable likelihood of further coverage, similar to other high-profile people who have been killed during the protests. Beccaynr (talk) 05:21, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

"El Pais" is the only source that shows some notability to the event, as it has decent coverage. The rest either don't mention her at all, or mention her only in passing. The Telegraph is even confused about her name and that of daughter.-- Ideophagous (talk) 22:43, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

I actually agree regarding moving it to the Killing of Minoo Majidi and had already created the page because I accidentally published this page with her name alone. Exhaustedgolsa (talk) 08:09, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Strong Keep Beccaynr's argument is accurate, it should be moved to Killing of Minoo Majidi.
• 1) She is one of the first female victims of this movement in Iran and this, along with her age difference with most of the young protesters, drew attention and received a lot of coverage in the sources.
• 2) The famous photo of his daughter cutting her hair at her mother's grave has become the signature of this revolutionary movement, and like the photo of the tank man in Tiananmen Square, it has acted as a political charter. This photo has caused so many reactions and social impact that it can be considered a factor of notability alone. This article has a lot of room for expansion. Mahan (talk) 06:48, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

  Everything you mentioned is irrelevant to whether the article about her death should be kept or not. Please read the guidelines in WP:N first. Coverage of her story is actually very limited compared to the deaths of other protestors, and she's mostly only mentioned by name with a picture. Doesn't look notable to me.-- Ideophagous (talk) 22:48, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

  Article is about the event and the consequences of death such as burial and reactions are part of the event of death. I don't agree with the argument of comparison with other articles, it is true that the incident of killing Nika Shakrami received extensive international coverage and Minoo Majidi remained at the level of extensive national coverage, but in my opinion this is enough to show notability. Mahan (talk) 23:54, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Comment. She has no notability on her own, which is why I moved the article to Death of Minoo Majidi. The notability of her death is also very weak, at least based on English sources. No major English-speaking (or for that matter, French or German-speaking) news source has covered her death with any modicum of significance, and even Iran Wire, only mentions her name with a list of other victims. If Persian speakers can confirm that her death was covered much more extensively in Persian-speaking sources (on par with Nika Shakarami for instance), with several examples of such sources, I'm willing to change my vote.--Ideophagous (talk) 16:14, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

  Comment. By the way, somebody also created Killing of Minoo Majidi. Regardless of the outcome of this discussion, the two articles should be merged or one of them simply deleted.-- Ideophagous (talk) 16:18, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

  New sources added. Some sources of the article belong to the Persian branch of international media such as VOA, BBC and Al Arabiya. In my opinion, the protests of the funeral ceremony and the symbolic reaction of his daughter have been covered to a considerable extent in Persian language sources. Mahan (talk) 17:55, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

  Sources such as Al Arabiya (and almost all the media of the Arab world except for Al Jazeera) are not considered reliable about what happens in Iran, considering the deep enmity between the Gulf countries and Iran: Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict. 4nn1l2 (talk) 18:53, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

  True, at least for state media. But in this case I think there is no dispute because the use of Al-Arabiya was only to refer to an image from the Corriere della Sera newspaper. Mahan (talk) 23:54, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

  They're not considered reliable by whom? The state that killed Minoo Majidi? Exhaustedgolsa (talk) 04:57, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

  By the English Wikipedia. For example, see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Arab News 4nn1l2 (talk) 15:06, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

• Keep under the new title at Death of Minoo Majidi. Passes WP:NEVENT per Beccaynr.4meter4 (talk) 19:02, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
• I'm changing my vote to weak keep, based on coverage in El Pais and The Telegraph. The article must be merged with Killing of Minoo Majidi regardless.--Ideophagous (talk) 22:46, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
• Keep - multiple international mainstream media sources establish notability as Death of Minoo Majidi, e.g. as shown in detail by Beccaynr above. Boud (talk) 15:43, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.