Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Black-Yellow Alliance

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. I had originally omitted the word "speedy" as this had happened after over 7 days, sorry. (non-admin closure) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:18, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Original, incorrect closure, overturned by myself: The result was keep ~ ToBeFree (talk) 17:41, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Black-Yellow Alliance

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Black-Yellow Alliance (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Article subject does not have verifiable notability and has been deleted from German (!) Wikipedia many times for being an advertisement of a completely irrelevant political party group.

de:Wikipedia:Löschkandidaten/30._Juni_2005#Schwarz-Gelbe_Allianz_und_Bild:Manfred_Koerner.jpg_(gelööscht), de:Wikipedia:Löschkandidaten/9._Dezember_2005#Schwarz-Gelbe_Allianz_(erledigt,_Wiedergänger), de:Wikipedia:Löschkandidaten/3._Dezember_2014#Schwarz-gelbe_Allianz_(geSLAt) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:30, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Correction: It might not even be a registered political party. The requirements to officially form one for an election might not even have been met by this... club. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:43, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I checked Factiva, 4 articles there, but I think the issue is we are searching English language media. If you search for the German name of the organisation, you get more than 7000 hits. Probably would get more if you specifically searched Austrian or German language media. Deathlibrarian (talk) 04:15, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Deathlibrarian: Your "hits" when searching might mainly be about the German alliance between CDU and FDP (conservatives and liberals), which is commonly called a "black-yellow" alliance. It has nothing to do with the Austrian club. :) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:58, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
many of the articles seem to be referring to the monarchy (not that I can read German) so I gather they must be talking about this party, unless the other one also has monarchist leanings as well.! Deathlibrarian (talk) 11:17, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Deathlibrarian: Having knowledge of German, I can assure you that the vast majority of articles are about the (non-monarchist) German political alliance between between the German parties, because they have formed the federal government several times (I think more often than any other coalitation), for example Merkel was elected chancellor with the votes of the black-yellow-coalition for her term from 2009 to 2013 (Second Merkel Cabinet). Furthermore, the term is also used to refer to the numerous coalitions of these parties at state and municipal level. In contrast, the Austrian Black-Yellow Alliance apparently has never had a member holding an elected office. Wikitigresito (talk) 16:12, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Wikitigresito, that's helpful - however, another point in support of keeping - there are pages for this article in 7 different languages. So it would be odd for it be deleted because english language wiki thought it wasn't notable, when other non english language wikis thought it was, particularly when its about a foreign concept. I'm generally for erring to the side of keep in these sort of situations. Deathlibrarian (talk) 02:47, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Neutral There is indeed some coverage in reliable sources in German, but just surficial notes because this political group is so strange. As far as I can see, they have not won any elections nor have had any significant impact on Austrian politics in general. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikitigresito (talk • contribs) 05:37, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Wikitigresito: Thank you for supporting the deletion, but please also point me to the coverage in reliable sources. This might be a coincidental misunderstanding. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:00, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@ToBeFree: Here in Süddeutsche http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/monarchisten-partei-ein-kaiser-fuer-oesterreich-1.1713784 and here in Der Standard https://derstandard.at/1373513432272/Monarchisten-Wir-sind-keine-Nostalgie-Partei. However, after and before 2013 I don't really find anything. Also, they explicitly do not view themselves as a party: http://sga.monarchisten.org/die-monarchisten.html Wikitigresito (talk) 00:39, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Wikitigresito: Oh. That really hit me unexpectedly. I did a Google News search (for the English term, now that I think about it) and all I had received was exactly 4 articles, and all about my expected German coalition. Alright then. Combined with these two articles, Nightstallion's arguments are beginning to convince me. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:52, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Checking again, the last one of my four even reports about the article subject: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/mixed-feelings-as-austria-bids-farewell-to-the-last-of-the-habsburgs-1.601706 -- ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:55, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
About not being a party, this part of the Sueddeutsche article might be interesting:

Schon bei der Nationalratswahl im Jahr 2008 wollten die Monarchisten antreten, bekamen aber nicht genug Unterstützer-Unterschriften zusammen. Sollte es wieder nicht gelingen, "wäre das auch kein Beinbruch", sagt Alexander Simec, "dann probieren wir es nächstes Mal wieder."

Attempted rough translation by me:
The Monarchists already wanted to take part in the legislative election in 2008, but did not receive enough endorsing signatures. Should it again not succeed, 'that would also not be the end of the world,' said Alexander Simec, 'then we will try again next time.'
Although they officially don't view themselves as a party, they did at least in the past seem to attempt to take part in the election -- and failed to do so. It's really just a club, seemingly contrary to Nightstallion's statement that it is "ridiculously easy to set up a political party in Austria, even easier than setting up a legal association" ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:12, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that's a bit of a misunderstanding, I think. Many political parties all around the world claim not be a party, but instead a “movement”, usually even “of people just like you and me” or “citizens' movement” (= Bürgerbewegung). —Nightstallion 06:36, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. It has been featured in electoral reporting repeatedly, even if they never actually managed to contest an election AFAIK. The reasons given by the nominator are also erroneous, for two reasons: The German-language Wikipedia is notorious for being very restrictive in their criteria for notability and encyclopedic value; and it is actually ridiculously easy to set up a political party in Austria, even easier than setting up a legal association (Verein). ;) —Nightstallion 07:58, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Nightstallion: This, too, might be about the German alliance between CDU and FDP (conservatives and liberals), which is commonly called a "black-yellow" alliance. It might have nothing to do with the Austrian club. :) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:58, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • This decision is harder than I expected it to be. The result might really be interesting. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:12, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Just to give you some more links with news reports on the SGA: neuwal, neuwal (again), Die Presse, Der Standard, Der Standard (again), Süddeutsche Zeitung, Österreich, Bezirksblatt. (They're mostly concentrated on pre-electoral coverage, of course.) I'll readily concede that they're not the epitome of notability, but while there are actually over a thousand registered political parties (again, it's ridiculously easy to register a *party* (especially compared to a Verein, which has to comply with far stricter regulations) – what's far more difficult is to be allowed to *contest an election*), there aren't actually that many that even make a serious attempt to contest national elections, so I'd argue that helps their notability in addition to the news sources I cited. —Nightstallion 06:35, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I was honestly surprised by the articles about this subject, and I had misinterpreted the Google results to be all about the German CDU-FDP (black-yellow) coalition. Maybe I even had been influenced by a filter bubble (I'm from Germany, and information about these parties is very likely to be more relevant than this Austrian group to me), but I had definitely misinterpreted at least one Google News search result that did show an article about the article subject. In my decision to nominate the article for deletion, I wrongly expected the German Wikipedia's deletion discussions to be useful for making a good decision here. I learned in this week that they are using stricter criteria than the English Wikipedia does, and that a strongly deleted article there does not imply lack of notability here. Let's keep the article. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 17:32, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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