Talk:Lionel Messi

Add source

@PeeJay: Hi! I see the source of information in subsection 2022–23 under Club career has not been added by anyone. Hope you will do this. Thanks!!! Hongkytran

Lionel Messi—44 or 45 trophies?

Hi. I have started this discussion regarding Lionel Messi's career trophies. I'm pinging some users here Black Kite, GiantSnowman, Guyrichtheman, Idiosincrático, Joseph2302, MatthewNewHouse, Muur, Oahid, PeeJay, Sadsadas, Stevie fae Scotland, 750h+, AirshipJungleman29, Jtbobwaysf, Yotrages, Annh07, and Mediocre Legacy. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 07:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Look at Lionel Messi#Honours for the Supercopa de España note, he also won the 2005 Supercopa de España. However, this particular trophy is not credited here since Messi was out of the squad and did not feature in any of the two games against Real Betis, and therefore did not receive a medal. Guyrichtheman (talk) 07:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

I wrote the note myself... my point is that according to this article published on 13 August 2005 (the day of the first leg of the final) by Mundo Deportivo, Messi was in fact called up for the game, making him eligible to receive a medal. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 07:59, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Why have I been pinged? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:37, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Ditto??? GiantSnowman 19:52, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

GiantSnowman and AirshipJungleman29 I pinged some users active on this page to get you involved. I'm sorry if that was inappropriate. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 06:31, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I made two comments on this page in January. See WP:INAPPNOTE—excessive pings are Wikipedia's equivalent of spam emails. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:28, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Me three. I also think this subject is a bit of naval gazing and OR focused. Just let it be. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 21:48, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't se why this would be OR, since Mundo Deportivo is one of the most reputable sports newspaper in Spain. In the article I linked it mentions Messi as a substitute in the match, and it even shows a picture of Messi travelling with the team for the first leg in Sevilla. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 06:34, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

You shouldn't have pinged us though, that's useless. Guyrichtheman (talk) 06:46, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

This again? Messi was not a substitute in either match, per the official Barcelona website. [1] [2] (and every other contemporary report). Black Kite (talk) 10:42, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Black Kite: Addendum: the Royal Spanish Football Federation, the governing body of football in Spain and the organising body of the Supercopa de España, officially states that "Lionel Messi is the competition's all-time leading scorer and most successful player with eight titles". Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 08:11, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

That doesn't make sense. Remember, for those who are in the squad for the 2005 Supercopa de España will get the medal, Messi was not in the squad either. Even though you wrote the note why do you think he has 45 trophies? Guyrichtheman (talk) 09:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't think he has 45 trophies. I think he has 44 that are 100% sure, and the 2005 Supercopa de España remains a foggy subject. He was on the bench according to Mundo Deportivo, and the newspaper even shows a picture of him and Deco travelling to Sevilla for the first leg. I mean, FC Barcelona, Inter Miami, Major League Soccer and most importantly FIFA and the Royal Spanish Football Federation (the latter assigns the trophy), all attribute it to him. We can't ignore all that, especially the Royal Spanish Football Federation. Who better than them could know how many trophies should be attributed to a player? Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 09:22, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

You will note that Mundo Deportivo gives 8 substitutes for each team when only 7 were allowed. Miguel Angel appears on their list for Betis but was not on the bench. I suspect each club took one extra player in case someone got injured in the warm-up (for example), and I wouldn't be surprised if it is this that has caused so much confusion. It's not really a "foggy subject" - he didn't play, but FCB decided in their wisdom that for some reason he should be credited with it even if he didn't get a medal, and all the other sources that you mention have followed. Black Kite (talk) 09:49, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree that most media outlets followed FCB, but the Royal Spanish Football Federation is a whole another story. How could that be explained? Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 10:01, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Occam's Razor suggests the most likely reason is that they got their information from FCB (or a media organization parroting them) as well. Black Kite (talk) 10:51, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

It could be, but it would be unlikely in my opinion. It would be useful to find another document by the RFEF that mentions how many supercups Messi has won, if it's out there. Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 12:07, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 June 2024

I request that the editors add the number of each type of trophy inside brackets under the Honours section.

For example, changing:

La Liga: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2012–13, 2014–15, 2015–16, 2017–18, 2018–19

to

La Liga (10): 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2012–13, 2014–15, 2015–16, 2017–18, 2018–19

Could you do this for every type of trophy so it is easier to count the total? 81.104.80.12 (talk) 16:04, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Who needs to put the amount of each type of trophy inside brackets anyway? If you cannot count the total of trophies it will be your problem. Guyrichtheman (talk) 06:50, 23 July 2024 (UTC)