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OnlySee was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 19 December 2017 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Sia. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Katherineinnes.
Please refer to MOS:FIRSTBIO and WP:ROLEBIO about policy on the lead sentence in biographies. The guideline states that:
"The lead sentence should describe the person as they are commonly described in reliable sources."
I have added two sources that refer to her as a "pop star". Following policy, she should be referred to only as "singer", but I am leaving songwriter in there for now, pending sourcing. LK (talk) 02:27, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per policy, please do not add uncited material to a BLP. please discuss before adding material that's contested. Claiming that something is citable is not the same as providing a citation. LK (talk) 02:37, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some articles that are already cited in the entry that show that she is notable for these other activites:
Voice actor: Her voice acting credits are noted in the filmography section: Film roles and Television roles.
The cites do not belong in the Lead section, which just summarizes information given in more detail in the body of the article below. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:14, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not enough to show that a person does or is something. The citations should show that the person is "commonly referred to" in such a way by reliable sources. Please provide these type of citations per the guideline. LK (talk) 04:13, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Can we remove the two out-of-place refs after the first sentence, and also remove the less important occupations of director and voice actress? This version is suitable, in my opinion. The two refs are about suicidal thoughts, and may be appropriate for the section about that topic. Binksternet (talk) 15:42, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Are we OK with the lead sentence as it stands? I think if we look in most reliable sources, when they refer to her, they call her a pop start, singer, or singer-songwriter. Even articles that talk about her recent film refer to her as a singer or as a singer-songwriter. I don't know of a single source that says something like: "The singer-songwriter, voice actress, director, Sia ....". Unless it can be shown that reliable sources commonly refer to her in such a way, this article's lead should not, as that would not be verifiable and would be "original research". LK (talk) 04:03, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're interpreting the idea too literally. The lead is supposed to summarize what they're referred to as, that doesn't mean it needs to directly quote one source for every descriptor in order. It's not WP:OR to use synonyms, so if cited sources refer to her directing of a movie then the lead can refer to her as a "director". XeCyranium (talk) 04:04, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Policy is that we should refer to a person as they are commonly referred to by reliable sources. It's ok to use synonyms, if a person is commonly referred to as a pop star, we can refer to them as 'singer'. But referring to them in the lead sentence as something that reliable sources do not refer to them as, is OR, and contravenes policy. LK (talk) 06:59, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with XeC. Sia has directed a feature film and numerous music videos, and she has lent her voice to quite a few films and television shows. If she had only done those things and were not a singer, she would still be notable, so they are worth mentioning. -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:17, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Again, policy is that the lead sentence follows how reliable sources refer to a person. It is not enough to show that a person is or has done something. WP:BLPLEAD states that for a role to appear in the lead sentence, reliable sources should refer to person in that way. If you believe the policy is wrong, then discuss it on the policy page. Otherwise, this page should follow policy. LK (talk) 03:09, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You are misinterpreting the guideline (not a policy). WP:BLPLEAD states that the Lead sentence should mention the "noteworthy position(s) or role(s) the person held". The question here is whether, in addition to her singing and songwriting, her directing and voice acting are "noteworthy positions or roles ... emphasize what made the person notable". You and Binksternet don't think her directing and voice acting (which are clearly described in reliable sources) are what makes her notable. Fair enough. But don't pretend that the guideline must be interpreted in the most robotic way. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:26, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Such disputes are best resolved by identifying sources that give in-depth biographical information, with historical and cultural context. --Hipal (talk) 18:30, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Photo
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with changing non-text media and don't want to screw up on a presumably higher traffic page but surely we have a better copyright free image available, right? The current info box photo is so obscured it's almost comedic. XeCyranium (talk) 03:53, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that she purposefully obscures her face in public is, I think, well expressed by this photo, and there is discussion in the article about the fact that she usually does this in performance and often in interviews. Some commentators have, indeed, stated that they thought it was comical or a joke that she does it, but she has explained her reasons in detail. Later in the article there are some photos from earlier eras in her life when she showed her face publicly. In any case, I am not aware of other free recent photos. -- Ssilvers (talk) 13:58, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The request to rename this article to Sia has been carried out.
If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.
– This was discussed once, back in 2015 [1], and had considerable support then. Now, seven years later, it is clear that Sia has enduring notability and can be considered the primary topic. While it's true that there are many pages listed at the dabpage Sia, most are for things named "SIA"; of the others, it's clear that the musician is the most notable. Much like Nelly, Robyn, Adele, Cher, and many others, we can move this article to the undisambiguated title for the benefit of the 5,000+ [2] readers that visit this page daily. 162 etc. (talk) 06:43, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Ssilvers: Ideally, there shouldn't be any pages linking directly to Sia as of now. This would be flagged as a link to the disambiguation page, and these are repaired with direct links to the intended dab entry (or link removed if there is no entry) by WP:WikiProject Disambiguation. The pages that are still linked should be a handful of still ambiguous redirects that can be easily retargeted using script tools. -2pou (talk) 00:26, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - she chose her mononym well and is clearly primary by pageviews and long-term significance. It's appropriate that the encyclopedia that doesn't need dollar bills to have fun would finally make this move happen. RedSlash00:45, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support as the overwhelming primary topic. The dab page is attracting over 100 viewers per day, almost all of whom want the singer's article.[3] Capitalized SIA should, of course, continue to be redirected to the dab page after the move. Station1 (talk) 07:00, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I still agree with the original oppose argument from the previous RM. It is possible that the name "Sia" was inspired by the ancient Egyptian god of the same name. The shortening of her stage name to "Sia" strengthens this mythological link. I rarely believe that names inspired by things should eclipse the thing it was inspired by, as that would go against the longterm significance criterion regardless of their current popularity. In my opinion they should at most be on the same level as them in terms of importance. It's probable that this will be closed as a WP:SNOW move but hey, it's worth a shot. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:17, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Katherineinnes.
