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Category:1907 establishments in Yekaterinoslav Governorate has been nominated for discussion

Category:1907 establishments in Yekaterinoslav Governorate, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for rename. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Updated Wikipedia:Romanization of Ukrainian

I have updated Wikipedia’s guideline as per discussions there. The default romanization system for Wikipedia is the Ukrainian National System that is currently used for Ukrainian geographic names, in Ukrainian passports, in the United Nations, and in most English-language media. This also simplifies the guideline. —Michael Z. 2019-11-19 20:05 z

Why does Kyiv Airport lead to Kyiv International Airport (Zhuliany)? Why not a disambig?

Disambiguation pages/redirects are usually based on what is the more prominent subject or if there is one? I suspect Boryspil International Airport is more well known/prominent than Kyiv International Airport (Zhuliany) so shouldn't "Kyiv Airport" go to the former?

Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 00:30, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Because Kyiv is literally the name of IEV? --Base (talk) 10:16, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Types of hromadas

Now, we need to agree how we call different type of amalhamated hromadas, which in Ukrainian are міська громада, селищна громада, and сільська громада. One option would be to call them city hromada, settlement hroada, and village hromada. The drawbacks are that this is not English, and in some cases might be misleading (for example, a rural settlement which is not a village can be the seat of a village hromada). Another option, which I so far was using, is to use urban hromada and rural hrtomada. This is much better English, but this classification does not discriminate between міська громада and селищна громада. My preference is the second one, but we need to discuss the terms before I add so many of them that correction would become impractical. So far I already have added them in several hundred articles.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:36, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

@Ookrainer, RGloucester, Yulia Romero, Aleksandr Grigoryev, and Микола Василечко: as the only users I know who could potentially care.--Ymblanter (talk) 21:40, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Ymblanter, thank you, for considering my opinion. I think your proposition is fine if it is used for general purpose description or brevity, but, if need to be disambiguate between an urban-type settlement and city, I think we should stick to the accepted norms. The introduction of "amalgamated" is very weird. Itself, the word hromada is pretty unique and, unlike the Ukrainian language that requires disambiguation, the use of amalgamated, I think, is overkill. It is not known to me the reasoning why there was introduced the word amalgamated over more common united, and what made the process of amalgamation to prevail over the process of bringing together in closer ties of union. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 21:55, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

May be to be specific I am talking about usage like here: Vyzhnytsia Raion. I was not planning to use the word "amalgamated" in the links.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:01, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

I'm fully agree with Aleksandr Grigoryev that the word hromada is pretty unique and the use of "amalgamated" is overkill. But RGloucester wants very much to keep hromada article about hromadas before reform and amalgamated hromada article about hromadas after reform apart, even though Ukrainian law explicitly states that the word “amalgamated” should not used in the name of a territorial hromadas. --Ookrainer (talk) 11:38, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

Per Ookrainer - without “amalgamated”. But also my own opinion: I think that the clarification of urban, rural settlement, village - is superfluous. Just, for example, «Ternopil Hromada». Urban, rural settlement, village - definition in the text of the introduction. --Микола Василечко (talk) 17:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

For me use of urban hromada and rural hromada seems better. --Ookrainer (talk) 11:38, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

• 'Amalgamated' is a necessary disambiguator. There is no other way to distinguish between new and old hromadas, especially where these overlap. I do not think the urban/rural clarification is necessary, as it serves no distinct purpose in administrative terms. That is why it was agreed at WP:P-NUK that the correct way to refer to these is Ternopil Amalgamated Hromada, &c., without the urban/rural clarification and retaining 'amalgamated' so as not to create any confusion between the old governmental form of Ternopil and the new one. 'Amalgamated' was chosen over 'united' because it was found to be more common when used with 'hromada' (as opposed to the English-translated 'united territorial community'), and indeed, because it is more sound as an English translation. Please note that this name is used by the Association of Amalgamated Hromadas. RGloucester — ☎ 18:10, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

I actually have been on the look-out for (Ukrainian) journalistic explanations about hromadas.... but it was until today and this request by Ymblanter that there are 3 kinds of hromada's (міська громада, селищна громада, and сільська громада). But I can not find (on the internet) 'why there are these 3 different names in use..... I assume they all have the same powers and rights? By the way, on decentralization.gov.ua (the official government website on decentralisation) the translations of the 3 hromadas is "city hromada", "town hromada" and "rural hromada"..... (for me city and town are synonyms.... The use of hromada names on decentralization.gov.ua is therefore (also) misleading.....)

These hromadas seems to be designed to confuse me....

Anyway.... I think that (therefore) it is best to use the terms urban hromada and rural hromada. For readers this can make clear that the hromada is predominantly rural or urban. Especially since there seems to be no difference between the powers and administrative subdivision of the 3 this seems to be the way to do it, it would be different if the 3 kinds of hromada's were a subdivision of the hromada administrative unit. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:29, 29 December 2020 (UTC)

My understanding is that these are not really 'types' of hromada, but rather a naming scheme based on the former status of the new administrative seat of the new amalgamated hromada. Therefore, in legislation, Ternopil Amalgamated Hromada will called 'Ternopil City Hromada', because the city of regional significance of Ternopil is its seat. Likewise, a hromada with its seat in a rural settlement becomes a 'rural hromada', &c. But, again, there is no functional difference between these as actual units. They all have the same powers. RGloucester — ☎ 04:45, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation RGloucester , I also found nothing to indicate that they all not have the same powers. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:00, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

@DDima:--Ymblanter (talk) 10:40, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

• Hello all. Firstly, hromadas doesn't 'Amalgamated' already, because Verkhovna Rada in April 2020 have passed the law and have changed name of gromadas from amalgamated territorial hromadas to territorial hromadas. And we renamed article about hromadas in uk-wiki to territorial hromada. So it only territorial, not amalgamated. Part of name 'amalgamated' is in the past. Forget it.
  Secondly, there are 3 kinds of gromadas - city, settlement (town) and rural. Using of this kinds in the name of articles is related to tradition of naming councils (city, settlement and rural), type of the administrative center (city, urban-type settlement or village) of the gromada and help for difference of hromadas which have the same name. --Kharkivian (talk) 10:27, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

  Just to avoid misunderstanding, we do not use towns for urban-type settlements.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:30, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

  Yes, of course. I know it. But we use towns for urban-type settlements often in Ukraine. This haven't no issue to this discussion. --Kharkivian (talk) 10:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

• @NickK and Ahonc: fyi. --Kharkivian (talk) 10:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
• Looks like the official terms are urban hromada, settlement hromada and rural hromada — NickK (talk) 13:02, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

  Thanks, this is probably the best solution.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:24, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, it's a marvel that such clear guidelines on how to refer to these in English have actually been released! It seems we should use "amalgamated hromada" for the general class, "urban hromada" for amalgamated hromadas with their seat in a city, "settlement hromada" for those with their seat in an urban-type settlement, and "rural hromada" for those with their seat in a village. Any objections? RGloucester — ☎ 00:12, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

The RfC expired, and, absent objections, I am going to implement this next week (when I am done with updating the raions, I still have three Oblasts left).--Ymblanter (talk) 16:08, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

A bit later than I thought, but starting implementing urban hromada, settlement hromada and rural hromada now.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:36, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

S1mple

Every so often anonymous users change the translated name for Oleksandr "s1mple" Kostyliev. This edit, for example, just happened and I have no way of being confident in the edit. Can someone who speaks Ukrainian confirm the proper spelling and leave it on the talk page, just so I know what to revert to when the article is inevitably vandalized? The player's bio is listed here, although this may be in Russian. There's also this. Any help appreciated! Alyo (chat·edits) 23:01, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

At this point, the Ukrainian name is not referenced and as such is a BLP violation and must be removed.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:46, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Ymblanter, meaning to only refer to his name in Russian? This seems like...not the best option, but I also know nothing about those two languages. Is there any help to be found on his Ukranian page? Since he is Ukranian, it does seem odd to me to entirely remove the Ukrainian name, even if sources that use his full name are all in Russian. Alyo (chat·edits) 07:05, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

The Ukrainian Wikipedia says Костилєв which is indeed what one would expect by using the reverse WP:UKR but it is not referenced either. I do not know, removing the Cyrillic name at all is one option, leaving Russian is another one (but I am sure it will be constantly subject to edits similar to what you have shown).--Ymblanter (talk) 07:11, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I see. Well, I'll continue to look for a Ukrainian source--and if anyone who speaks the language finds one, please ping me. Thanks for your help! Alyo (chat·edits) 17:41, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Actually, Ymblanter, one further question. What is the difference between "Олександр Костильєв Камень" (as currently listed on the en-wp page) and "Олександр Олегович Костилєв" on the uk-wp page? I assume the former is vandalism, based on google translate? Alyo (chat·edits) 17:48, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

To me, Камень does not make sense in this context, it literally means "stone" and might be some previous nickname, but I do not see any evidence this being the case. Олегович is a patronymic (which just means his father's name is/ was Oleh).--Ymblanter (talk) 17:54, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

I went back through the history and I'm all but positive that's vandalism. Appreciate the confirmation. Alyo (chat·edits) 18:00, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Were Ukrainian children kidnapped by the Nazis too?

There have recently been some attempts at rewriting Kidnapping of children by Nazi Germany, and one of the issues is whether the Nazis were kidnapping primarily Polish children, of more general, Slavic (Polish and Soviet/Ukrainian). Anyone who is interested in this topic, please consider joining this discussion. Cheers, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:09, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Scope of List of people from Ukraine

I started a RfC at Talk:List of people from Ukraine#Scope of the list to define the scope.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:07, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Holodomor

Hello an editor is proposing to remove large amounts of information and sources about the Holodomor from Holodomor in modern politics. Interested editors can help by providing feedback on the talk page and additional references for the content. Thanks,  // Timothy :: talk  12:48, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Notability of a political party

Hi. I found this article: Ukrainian Party "Green Planet". I'm wondering whether it passes Wikipedia's notability requirements. There's certainly no significant coverage in English-language sources, but as I don't speak Ukrainian, I can't judge whether there is significant coverage in Ukrainian. It would also be good to know if this party has ever won any seats in national, regional, or local elections. I hope someone can tell me this! Lennart97 (talk) 12:10, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I also wonder about the notability of said party's founder Natalya Zemna, a "herbalist and healer" who supposedly "recovered from a complicated heart condition by self-administering herbal remedies". Looking at the article's sources, I don't get the impression that any of it is significant, indepedent coverage. But again, I'm not Ukrainian so I'd appreciate some help. Lennart97 (talk) 21:29, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I've nominated both of them for deletion, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ukrainian Party "Green Planet" and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natalya Zemna. Input is still very welcome. Lennart97 (talk) 23:23, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

FAR of St. Michael's Golden-Domed Monastery

I have nominated St. Michael's Golden-Domed Monastery for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Z1720 (talk) 02:57, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

New Wikipedia writing challenge – it's about Ukraine

Hello, dear Wikipedians!
Wikimedia Ukraine, in cooperation with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine and Ukrainian Institute, has launched a new writing challenge in Wikipedia.
"Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month" lasts from 10 February to 10 March 2021. The campaign is dedicated to famous Ukrainian artists of cinema, music, literature, architecture, design, who have made a significant contribution to world culture and about whom there are no articles in Wikipedia.
Please help us invite to this challenge more people! I hope that it will help those who long wanted to read (and write) more about Ukraine finally have an excuse for it -- ViraMotorko (WMUA) (talk) 15:48, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Kommersant has an RFC

Kommersant has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. — Mikehawk10 (talk) 06:30, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

FAR notice

I have nominated Sviatoslav I for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm _Talk 23:39, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Proposed MoS addition on optional stress marking in Ukrainian, Russian, Japanese, Korean, etc.

FYI

 – Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.

Please see: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#RfC?, for a proposal relating to optional characters/marks for indicating vocal stress, used in some foreign languages, include "ruby" characters for Japanese and Korean, and znaki udareniya marks in Ukrainian and Russian. The short version is that, based on a rule already long found in MOS:JAPAN and consonant with WP:NOTDICT policy, MoS would instruct (in MOS:FOREIGN) not to use these marks (primarily intended for pedagogical purposes) except in unusual circumstances, like direct quotation, or discussion of the marks themselves. Target date for implementation is April 21. PS: This does not relate to Vietnamese tone marks.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:39, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Romanization of Rusyn

I’ve created an information page at WP:RUSYN. —Michael Z. 23:20, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Highest railway in Ukraine?

If you know the answer, make sure to add it to relevant wiki pages, especially to List of highest railways by country. Thanks! Zach (Talk) 21:23, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

File: Coat of arms of Prince Yuri.png is nominated for deletion in Commons due to a possible inaccuracy

Hello, Ukrainians, there is a discussion created by one of the Ukrainians about a modern interpretation of a historical Ukrainian seal of Yuri II Boleslav. Your opinion about its accuracy would be very welcome as it is nominated for deletion since December 2020. The discussion of this nomination can be found here.

• 

-- Pofka (talk) 18:35, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Molodohvardiysk listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Molodohvardiysk to be moved to Molodohvardiisk. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 13:56, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

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Kozachok

Hello, Ukrainian neighbours. Perhaps you'd like to support me there. I removed Russian categories from the article as it's not a Russian dance. SylwiaS | talk 16:37, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 8 June 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 20:34, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

---

• Bilozirya → Biloziria
• Talianki → Talianky
• Baklanova Muraviyka → Baklanova Muraviika
• Hremyach → Hremiach
• Stary Vovchynets → Staryi Vovchynets
• Zamostya → Zamostia
• Milieve → Miliieve
• Zvenyachyn → Zveniachyn
• Boyanchuk → Boianchuk
• Verkhnya Lypytsya → Verkhnia Lypytsia
• Kostantyvka → Kostiantivka
• Novooleksiyivka → Novooleksiivka
• Tavriysk → Tavriisk
• Verkhniy Rohachyk → Verkhnii Rohachyk
• Illyria (village) → Illiriia
• Mykolayivka, Stanytsia-Luhanska Raion → Mykolaivka, Luhansk Oblast
• Rannya Zorya → Rannia Zoria
• Hodovytsa → Hodovytsia
• Sielec, Drohobych Raion → Selets
• Staryiy Yarychiv → Staryi Yarychiv
• Ternopillja → Ternopillia
• Voloscha → Voloshcha
• Voyutychi → Voiutychi
• Vypuchki → Vypuchky
• Zabolotsi → Zabolottsi
• Dolishniy Luzhok → Dolishnii Luzhok
• Berestyany → Berestiany
• Hordynya → Hordynia
• Kozyova → Kozova, Lviv Oblast
• Oryavchyk → Oriavchyk
• Volosyanka, Skole Raion → Volosianka
• Bob'iatyn → Bobiatyn
• Bacina, Lviv Oblast → Bachyna
• Bilici, Lviv Oblast → Bilychi
• Borsevici, Lviv Oblast → Borshevychi
• Haschiv → Khashchiv
• Kryntyata → Kryntiata
• Mala Volosyanka → Mala Volosianka
• Nyzhniy Turiv → Nyzhnii Turiv
• Nyzhnya Yablunka → Nyzhnia Yablunka
• Nyzhnye → Nyzhnie
• Verkhne → Verkhnie
• Verkhne Vysotske → Verkhnie Vysotske
• Verkhnia Jablunka → Verkhnia Yablunka
• Verkhniy Turiv → Verkhnii Turiv
• Yasenytsya → Yasenytsia
• Zubrytsya → Zubrytsia
• Berdyhiv → Berdykhiv

– Correct romanization per WP:UKR. These changes serve the article naming WP:CRITERIA of recognizability, naturalness, precision, conciseness, and consistency.

These are all small settlements in Ukraine. The current article names have spellings according to a less-appropriate standard, have non-Ukrainian spelling, or are just quirky or misspelled. I have not tested to see if any of the subjects have only a single most WP:COMMONNAME, but if they do then it is most likely to correspond to our standard romanization. Each proposed spelling is romanized according to the Ukrainian National system, which derives the official Latin-alphabet spelling, has been adopted by the UNGEGN and BGN/PCGN (source of Ukrainian place-name spellings on the authoritative GeoNames database), and in each of these cases also corresponds to a variant of the widely used modified Library of Congress romanization.

I confirmed Ukrainian names by looking at the corresponding article on Ukrainian Wikipedia. Checked each new title for conflicts and adjusted the title disambiguation. Some of these have been renamed previously, but without any discussion.  —Michael Z. 20:30, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

• Comment. Makes sense, there is a lot of disorder in Ukrainian names, in particular in western oblasts. Note that if Verkhniy Rohachyk has been moved Verkhniy Rohachyk Raion must be moved as well.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:45, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

  Thank you. I didn’t look hard for that, because it is not easy for me to confirm the state of the transitioning raion and hromada systems. I assume each settlement represents the main article title for any of its eponymous administrative territories, but it would be good to note them here if possible. —Michael Z. 22:54, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

• Support - the inconsistency is probably the result of unfamiliarity with WP:UKR rather than actual strong beliefs/opinions about the correct romanization of Ukrainian place names. Cran32 (talk | contributions) 21:36, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

  No analysis or judgment of the original intent was implied. —Michael Z. 22:54, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

  Sorry for the phrasing - I just mean that this is unlikely to face opposition :) Cran32 (talk | contributions) 23:18, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nomination, Ymblanter and Cran32. The proposed forms represent consistent Ukrainian transliteration of English Wikipedia main title headers delineating Ukrainian topics. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:36, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom--RicardoNixon97 (talk) 13:25, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom, is there some way to get consensus that moving small towns to stanzerdized transliteration can be uncontested?—blindlynx (talk) 13:47, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

  This represents about half of Ukraine’s oblasts. I will do another round after this is cleared up, and then the question should be largely moot, apart from individual articles and new articles. The format is not ideal, but I do like putting it in front of more eyes to check for mistakes or exceptions that I’ve missed. —Michael Z. 14:34, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough—blindlynx (talk) 17:51, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

• Support – per nom and WP:UAPLACE. RGloucester — ☎ 16:36, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Is Julian Bilecki Polish, Ukraianian or both?

See talk. Maybe there are some sources in Ukrainian? The most reliable English source we have, NYT, calls him a Pole, and it and CNN spell his name in Polish. YV spells his name as "Biletskiy, Yulian". Some unreliable websites, still spelling his name in Polish, mention he and some of his family remained in Ukraine after the war. There are mentions of a Ukrainian state ceremony involving them in 1990. This may be based on some Ukrainian news media? I didn't find any Polish-language sources discussing his story. My guess he is a member of the Polish minority in Ukraine, which may require changing the article a bit (he is described/categorized as a Pole). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:19, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 13 June 2021

• Pervomayske, Rozdilna Raion → Pervomaiske, Odessa Oblast
• Mikhaylivka, Vinnytsia Oblast → Mykhailivka, Vinnytsia Oblast
• Mizhrichia, Crimea → Mizhrichchia
• Velykyi Buyalyk → Velykyi Buialyk
• Velyka Bihan → Velyka Byihan
• Chynadiyovo → Chynadiieve
• Budyatychi → Budiatychi
• Suharivka → Sukharivka
• Adamyvka → Adamivka
• Liublinets → Liublynets
• Mizhhirya → Mizhhiria
• Bilyayivka → Biliaivka
• Tavriyske → Tavriiske
• Grozyne → Hrozyne

– Correct romanization per WP:UKR. These changes serve the article naming WP:CRITERIA of recognizability, naturalness, precision, conciseness, and consistency.

These are all small settlements in Ukraine. The current article names have spellings according to a less-appropriate standard, have non-Ukrainian spelling, or are just quirky or misspelled. I have not tested to see if any of the subjects have only a single most WP:COMMONNAME, but if they do then it is most likely to correspond to our standard romanization. Each proposed spelling is romanized according to the Ukrainian National system, which derives the official Latin-alphabet spelling, has been adopted by the UNGEGN and BGN/PCGN (source of Ukrainian place-name spellings on the authoritative GeoNames database), and in each of these cases also corresponds to a variant of the widely used modified Library of Congress romanization.

I confirmed Ukrainian names by looking at the corresponding article on Ukrainian Wikipedia. Checked each new title for conflicts and adjusted the title disambiguation. Some of these have been renamed previously, but without any discussion.

(This is mass move request 2 of 2; see #Requested move 8 June 2021.)  —Michael Z. 21:40, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

The first one must be Pervomaiske, Odessa Oblast--Ymblanter (talk) 10:32, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Updated. —Michael Z. 11:46, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

• Support, per nom. Cran32 (talk | contributions) 15:59, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom--RicardoNixon97 (talk) 12:39, 15 June 2021 (UTC)