Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 June 10: Difference between revisions

June 10

Category:Black geoscientists

• Propose deleting Category:Black geoscientists (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Maybe I'm missing something, but this category name doesn't fit our existing pattern of category naming, i.e. Category:African-American scientists, Category:African-American mathematicians, etc. --bender235 (talk) 21:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Please do not delete. You are missing that African-American and Black are not the same. There needs to be a subcategory specifically for Black GEOscientists, which there currently is not. Please do NOT delete this category. Thank you. MethanoJen (talk) 21:41, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete. This is uncategorised. There is no parent category for geoscientists. Rathfelder (talk) 21:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
• Keep. African-American is a subset of black; not all black people are from America. If Category:African-American geoscientists were to be made it would be subcat of this. This category now has a parent. —Vanderdecken∴∫ξφ 22:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
• Comment. MethanoJen, I'm well aware that Black ≠ African-American. My point was that, at least to my knowledge, we do not have categories of this name pattern. Also, no need to plead with me over this deletion, since I am not the person deciding this. Also, please call back the Twitter police, it's enough having the Breitbart mob hounding me. --bender235 (talk) 22:31, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:RATP

• Propose merging Category:RATP to Category:RATP Group

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OVERLAPCAT. Both are topic categories relating to RATP Group. 1857a (talk) 20:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:English Jews of the Tudor period

• Propose renaming Category:English Jews of the Tudor period to Category:16th-century English Jews

Nominator's rationale: rename, aligning with Category:16th-century Italian Jews. English Jews did not have a specific connection with the Tudor dynasty, so that a more general century category fits better. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:02, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Academic journals associated with non-profit organizations

• Propose deleting Category:Academic journals associated with non-profit organizations (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  
• Propose deleting Category:Academic journals associated with non-profit organisations of India (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  
• Propose deleting Category:Academic journals associated with non-profit organizations of the United States (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:OCASSOC, it is very vague how these journals are related to non-profit organizations. If kept, rename to Category:Academic journals on behalf of non-profit organizations and purge. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:33, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per nom and this is not defining, because most academic journals are published by universities which are (usually) non-profit organizations. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Jewish German teachers

• Propose deleting Category:Jewish German teachers (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: Only 1 article. Name is unsatisfactorily ambiguous. Erich Klibansky seems to have been more a teacher of English than of German, but he was a German schoolteacher - where he is already categorised. There dont seem to be any other Jewish teacher categories. Rathfelder (talk) 15:47, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete unnecessary intersection of ethnicity or religion, nationality, and career per WP:OCEGRS. The nom also points out that ambiguity of whether this is meant to categorize Jewish people who teach German (apparently not) or Jewish people who are/were German, who teach (anything). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:26, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
• There are 23 subcategories of American Jews by occupation, unsurprisingly a lot more than any other country. I suppose the question of whether the intersection is significant varies from country to country, but many of them dont seem significant to me. Rathfelder (talk) 17:50, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Demographics of the European Union

• Propose deleting Category:Demographics of the European Union (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: disperse, too much overlap with Category:Demographics of Europe. The articles should be added to Category:Demographics of Europe, the eponymous article and the immigration subcat should be added to Category:European Union. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Roman amphitheatres in Germany

• Propose merging Category:Roman amphitheatres in Germany to Category:Roman amphitheatres, Category:Amphitheaters in Germany and Category:Ancient Roman buildings and structures in Germany

Nominator's rationale: upmerge to parent categories per WP:SMALLCAT, only one article in the category and it is not part of a large sub-categorization scheme. Marcocapelle (talk) 14:04, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:People declared dead in absentia

• Propose renaming Category:People declared dead in absentia to Category:People presumed dead

Nominator's rationale: rename in order to follow the WP:RM renaming of Declared death in absentia to Presumption of death. This category rename was opposed at speedy. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:22, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

copy of CFDS discussion
Category:People declared dead in absentia to Category:People presumed dead - C2D. Article name changed. See [1].--Jack Upland (talk) 06:05, 28 May 2020 (UTC) Oppose speedy The main article is "Presumption of death" and not "presumed dead". Armbrust The Homunculus 20:32, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

@Armbrust and Jack Upland: pinging contributors of CFDS discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:25, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

OK, Armbrust, might have a point there. I don't know what the rules are exactly. The point is that the wording should follow the main article: that is, "People presumed dead" instead of "People declared dead in absentia". We established at the main article that "presumption of death" and "presumed dead" are the standard phrases in English. "Declared dead in absentia" does not appear to be an official term, was not used by any source cited by the main article, is not used in legal dictionaries, and in fact doesn't appear to make sense. Uses of the term on the Internet appears derive from the Wikipedia article. The phrase appears to have derived from a confusion between "presumption of death" and being "sentenced to death in absentia".--Jack Upland (talk) 09:47, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose presumed dead leads to the obvious question: "by whom?" The current formulation doesn't beg that unanswerable. There are lots of people who some people presume to be dead but have never been adjudicated as dead by a court. People missing in action in various wars, possible kidnapping victims, absconders, and people who disappeared sufficiently long ago who would break world records in age were they still alive (even Wikipedia presumes only those born in 1896 onward as alive; therefor Wikipedia presumes those born 1895 and earlier to be dead), what use is it to put all those with Category:Year of death missing into this category since the mere addition of that category presumes that there is a year of death, hence the person is dead (becoming, alas, a member of the proposed target category). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 16:36, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Tell Abu Sabun

• Propose deleting Category:Tell Abu Sabun (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  

Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT contains 3 articles which are already interlinked directly. Upon deletion of the category, the main article Necropolis of Emesa should be added to both current parent categories. If the category is kept, a rename to Category:Necropolis of Emesa may be considered, in line with a recent bold rename of the main article. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:14, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

copy of CFDS discussion
Category:Tell Abu Sabun to Category:Necropolis of Emesa – C2D Recruos (talk) 11:26, 27 May 2020 (UTC) Oppose speedy Main article was only recently moved and without discussion, so C2D doesn’t apply. Armbrust The Homunculus 08:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Category:Reggae albums by Puerto Rican artists

• Propose renaming Category:Reggae albums by Puerto Rican artists to Category:Reggaeton albums by Puerto Rican artists

Nominator's rationale: The article for Reggaeton says that the genre is not to be confused with reggae (thus not the same genre) while artists/albums listed on this category fit the description "reggaeton". -- Lk95 8:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

• Note Currently, there is no categorization scheme for Category:Reggaeton albums by artist nationality as there is for reggae albums. Also, if the genres aren't related, should reggaeton not be categorized as a reggae genre? Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 02:36, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
• Note to admin Suggest relisting as category was never tagged. Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars^{Talk to me} 21:02, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Category was not properly tagged until 26 May 2020.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 19:03, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose Just categorize individual categories and articles under Category:Reggaeton albums. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:26, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Afro-Latin American

• Propose splitting Category:Afro-Latin American to Category:Afro-Latin American and Category:Afro-Latin American (United States)

Nominator's rationale: Now, it's rather obvious that to anyone outside of the USA and maybe Canada that "American" (and especially "Latin American") is a term used to refer to people living in both North and South America. However, here in the States, we're special and also use it for our country's demonym (Americans).
Cool. So why bring this up now? Well, Category:Afro-Latin American is currently being used to sort American Afro-Latino (ie. USA) and Afro-Latin Americans. I think it would probably be for the best if we did a soft split for Americans of the USA and everyone else.
I bring this up because I noticed Medaria Arradondo is currently categorized as Afro-Mexican when he really should be categorized as Category:Afro-Latin American (United States), Category:American people of Mexican descent, and Category:African-American police officers. He's pretty obviously not a citizen of Mexico.
My heart isn't dead set on the name though. If people want it to match the parent article, that's good with me as well. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 03:28, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• Question, is there a distinct Afro-Latin American ethnic community in the United States? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:34, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

  @Marcocapelle: Yes? Well, yes and no. It's a thing, but it's still in progress. If you search for "afro-latinx" (which is pretty much an US American-exclusive term), you'll see what I mean. It's definitely been a term used by Afro-Dominicans within the United States (ref), but it could apply to a lot of other groups (like Afro-Puerto Ricans). –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 06:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• It gives me the impression that it is premature. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete this tree is little more than a collection of categories for mostly biography articles sorted and ghettoized by race, ethnicity, and nationality intersections. WP:OCEGRS. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:13, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Circular ISO redirects

• Propose renaming Category:Circular ISO redirects to Category:Circular ISO 639-3 redirects or Category:ISO 639-3 avoided double redirects

Nominator's rationale: From the description, this should be called "Circular ISO 639-3 redirects" or even "ISO 639-3 avoided double redirects". 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 16:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The nomination was malformed because no target was explicitly stated on top, but I've fixed it based on the nominator's suggestions.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:50, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete unless someone can identify a useful workflow that uses this category. Categorization of redirects like this appears to be makework and is effort that could probably be better spent elsewhere (e.g. fixing problems with categorization of articles). DexDor ^(talk) 07:01, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:World Figure Skating Hall of Fame inductees

• Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:World Figure Skating Hall of Fame inductees

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OVERLAPCAT, WP:OCAWARD)

The World Figure Skating Hall of Fame isn't officially an Olympic hall of fame but it sure looks like one in practice: 70 of the 93 articles in this category are already somewhere under Category:Olympic figure skaters and another 7 8 have other Olympic connections, mostly coaches: A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H. (The remaining 16 15 articles are already well categorized: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15). Being in the Olympics for figure skating is definitely defining but getting this award later for the same earlier effort is not remotely defining for Robin Cousins, Lyudmila Pakhomova, or Kurt Browning. We already have the winners listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:50, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Background We've consistently deleted Halls of Fame that celebrate the earlier success of athlets at the Olympic Games here, here, here, here, here, here and here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:50, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per nominator, per WP:NONDEFINING and per WP:OCAWARD. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:04, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:OCAWARD and WP:PERFCAT. ֆօʍɛɮօɖʏǟռʏɮօɖʏ05 (talk) 13:53, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:WCW Hall of Fame

• Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:WCW Hall of Fame

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD, WP:PERFCAT)

The WCW Hall of Fame existed from 1993-1995 to recognize professional wrestlers from World Championship Wrestling and it's predecessors. The award was a televised segment within the annual pay-per-view event, Slamboree. In the articles, this is typically listed among other honors and doesn't seem defining. The contents of the category are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in this former award. - RevelationDirect (talk) 02:50, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Delete per nominator, per WP:NONDEFINING and per WP:OCAWARD. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:04, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:OCAWARD. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:59, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. ֆօʍɛɮօɖʏǟռʏɮօɖʏ05 (talk) 13:48, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Category:Cox Television

• Propose renaming Category:Cox Television to Category:Cox Communications

Nominator's rationale: This used to be the category for the Cox Television station group, now Cox Media Group. Moving out the active TV stations left a series of misfit articles, most of which were related to the cable company Cox Communications, which does not have a category. (Cox Television and Cox Communications were/are separate businesses under the same family.)

I have prodded one article for not meeting the GNG; Miami Valley Channel would be moved out; and Cox Communications, YurView Arizona, YurView Louisiana, and Digital Max—all articles related to Cox Communications—would be moved in. Raymie (t • c) 21:00, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, bibliomaniac15 02:44, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

• Rename, the four remaining articles are clearly about Cox Communications. That eponymous article should be added to the category as well after renaming. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:04, 10 June 2020 (UTC)