User talk:ToBeFree: Difference between revisions

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Grammar

^{Note: This is not a recent discussion; the last message was written 6 years ago. However, I will keep it at the top of the talk page because I hope that 75.110.241.177 might come back and see it one day. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 16:56, 16 July 2018 & 22:44, 8 May 2019 (UTC)}

Previous discussion; already read by 75.110.241.177

Main discussion This section has been moved to the bottom of the talk page and merged with an update created under a new heading. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:30, 1 May 2018 (UTC) ...Yes, the reason I edited the page was to "change the meaning of the words." I effectively did just that. Grammarians do not talk about modifying sentences, which you said I should have been doing. It is always words which are modified. Despite this, you found my edit wanting in some mysterious fashion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.110.241.177 (talk) 14:33, 27 April 2018 (UTC) (This specific message is probably about the following edit: [1] ) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:37, 28 April 2018 (UTC) Before continuing to answer this question, it might be helpful to copy link to a possibly relevant discussion between you and another editor about a similar issue: Talk:Gloria_Union#Japan_only Note by ToBeFree, 02:00, 11 May 2018 (UTC): I have removed the original quotes from this section, because I had a look at this conversation a week later, and directly quoting this discussion was not a nice thing to do. Both editors have been attacking each other, and it would be bad taste of me to actively mirror that in my talk page archive forever. I had originally quoted the messages from 16:11, 27 April 2018 (UTC) and 16:38, 27 April 2018 (UTC). Even when quoting the discussion here, taking that aggressive section out of its context is not a good idea. This seems to be especially relevant because you declared yourself, literally, to be "Grammar police" "knocking" on other editors' "doors" to correct them. You do even "insist" native English speakers to "stop editing articles for grammar" because you say that they have a "very poor grasp of the English language". The reason why I made this edit is that you have not simply fixed grammar errors. Instead, you have changed the meaning of the words without modifying the overall sentence, resulting in a logical error. This specific edit is not related to grammar, it is related to logic. If you believe this to be a grammatical correction, I am afraid that other editors' reactions to your other edits might not have been entirely made up out of thin air. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:37, 28 April 2018 (UTC) Once again, you can't "modify a sentence" because no such thing is possible. You may as well speak of "modifying DNA to transform a human into an ape". That is the state of it. You must not edit Wikipedia for grammar if you are unaware of how grammar is to be constructed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.110.241.177 (talk) 14:00, 1 May 2018‎ (UTC) Bad taste Note by ToBeFree, 14:59, 1 May 2018 (UTC): This seems to be about User talk:ToBeFree#Grammar and User talk:75.110.241.177 I find it in bad taste for you to dredge up discussion that I've had with other people, and then make remarks about them on my talk page. Clearly this is something you're set on doing. When you remark that I said a user should stop editing, you are wrong. I said this user should stop editing for grammar. You PROBABLY should know better than this, but English may be a barrier here, because you admit on your page that you speak only "advanced" English, and not near-perfect or professional (the other categories). In any case, if you think that you have the right to correct me in the fashion that you have, then you are mistaken. You are not a moderator here.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.110.241.177 (talk) 14:55, 1 May 2018‎ (UTC) Please sign your posts: "~~~~" ~ ToBeFree (talk) 14:59, 1 May 2018 (UTC) I hope I was able to address the quote problems pointed out by you. See diff. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:25, 1 May 2018 (UTC) Main discussion, continued This does not seem to actually answer the problem; I'll try to explain it differently. before your edit after your edit considered to be "German" considered at the time to be not fully German You say that this is a grammatical correction. This might be the case if the quotation marks around the word "German" are actually meant to say "not fully German". I do not believe this to be the intention behind these quotation marks. The quotation marks, in this sentence, are not implying incompleteness; they are used to quote a word. If you do not like this usage of the quotation marks, a grammatical fix would look like this: before your edit after your edit considered to be "German" considered to be German Any other change can not be justified by grammar. It adds your personal interpretation to the article; it changes the meaning of the sentence, and you did so without providing a source. This, and only this, is why I have undone the edit. I have received a "Thank You" from another experienced editor* for this edit some hours later. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 17:05, 1 May 2018 (UTC) *Clarification for later readers: I am not talking about Khajidha here, who has joined the discussion afterwards. The "Thank You" has been sent by an uninvolved editor who likely had the article on their watchlist. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:18, 1 May 2018 (UTC) Hello, here is the quoted sentence from the article. It hints and suggests that some of the people weren't German enough, due to them not using the full black-red-gold colors. The Frankfurt Parliament had declared the black-red-gold as the official colours of the German Confederation, with the red in the tricolour most likely referencing the Hanseatic League, and the gold and black symbolizing Austria as its empire, considered to be "German", had an influence over (what would become) southern Germany. The person who wrote it (not sure who it was) probably thought "gosh, Austria isn't Germany, I should point out this fact" but he or she was not able to do it appropriately. As far as his or her view goes, I cannot defend a prejudiced view. I only know to correct the grammar where I see it lacking. It may require a citation needed tag. --75.110.241.177 (talk) 18:42, 1 May 2018 (UTC) For someone who claims to be a part of the "grammar police" and to have studied grammar, you have the most abysmal understanding of it. User:ToBeFree has explained it perfectly to you in the above post. The sentence you quoted means that the reason Austria used the gold and black was that they were German. German in the cultural and linguistic sense and not in the sense of a German nationality or citizenship. The quotation marks around German are to indicate that it is to be understood in that sense of "German, but not of Germany". It's another way of saying "ethnic German". And yes, you can modify a sentence. I have NO idea where you got that particular dictum of yours from. --Khajidha (talk) 19:22, 1 May 2018 (UTC) Wait, let's not resort to attacks again. Since the last few hours, I'm researching about this, reading a lot about the historical circumstances and refreshing what we learned in our history school classes. From what I have read so far, simply removing the quotation marks is indeed a valid correction, and - whether the author has meant that or not - it is relatively likely that Austria has actually been considered to be German in this regard. Your point about it having been viewed as "ethnic German" is especially nice, because this might really be what it means, and I lacked the words to describe this. Please, at the very least on my own talk page, edit the source of this page and add <s> at the beginning of your previous message. Then add </s> after the first period, before "User:ToBeFree". Alternatively, you can re-word the sentence to be less aggressive. The rest of your statement seems to be very valid, and I thank you for taking the time to explain what I would have required more research for. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:32, 1 May 2018 (UTC) Oh, and yes, a Citation Needed tag might be good to have there! The whole discussion might not have been needed if there had been a valid reference clarifying the meaning. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:38, 1 May 2018 (UTC) I am a part of the grammar police. There's no need to put it in quotes, dubiously, and darkly, as the person who wrote German on the page did. You can see, from this, that indeed the purpose is to make the word German seem reprehensible, disreputable, and questionable. For all that he proved my point indirectly, you can safely ignore Khajidha. He is a resident troll on this website. --75.110.241.177 (talk) 20:13, 1 May 2018 (UTC) All of this is your personal interpretation, which I do not share. I have added a "citation needed" tag, as you had nicely suggested, and will completely remove the relevant sentence if no reliable citation is added in the next few weeks. Please do not personally attack other editors, and remove the last two sentences from your latest message on my talk page. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:08, 1 May 2018 (UTC) You're free to be wrong about grammar, but you should not edit any pages for grammar. Thanks for nothing. --75.110.241.177 (talk) 10:01, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Apology to 75.110.241.177: Please read this if you ever come back

Looking at this one month later I'm sorry for my initial hostile reaction. I have been clearly uncivil here, and I should not have let this incident stress me out. I had originally quoted a personal attack towards you, which is definitely not okay, and I had even originally marked it in bold to emphasize which part of the quoted discussion I considered to be "relevant". Before you had read the text (I hope), I quickly removed the bold text from the quote and reworded it to be less aggressive. I have also added an explanation of my edit on this occassion -- something I should have done as the very first thing, and in a much more polite way. About two weeks later, I decided to remove the insulting quote from my talk page. Especially as I had complained about personal attacks between you and Khajidha in the discussion, my quote casted an embarrassingly bad light on the otherwise very friendly atmosphere I'm trying to establish here. That was a good first step, I think, but I feel that it has not been enough. I have noticed that you have not edited since this discussion, and that your last edit has been made one month ago to my talk page. This is worrying me, because I might have discouraged a well-intending user from editing, something which I had ironically been complaining about to you above. I hope that the sudden stop of editing from your IP address, 75.110.241.177, has only been caused by a change of IP address, or by registration of a username. Today, I would like to invite you to give Wikipedia, a huge project that can only continue to exist because of contributions like yours, a second chance. Specifically, I sincerly hope that you would like to give me, personally, a second chance as well. I'm sorry for having been rude in our discussion, and I will honestly do my best to prevent something like this from happening ever again. If you would like to come back, please take one of these cookies: They're still warm while you're reading this. No matter when you're reading this. They'll be waiting here, they will not be archived, and it would make me happy to hear from you again whenever you see this message. I sadly can't reach you via e-mail by leaving a message on your talk page, but maybe you're still reading Wikipedia as 75.110.241.177, and maybe you'll be looking at my talk page one day again. When you do, please let me know, even if you choose to refuse my apology. I know that I have messed up. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:56, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Of course yes, I would like to submit the draft for review as soon as possible Thanks --Fab1966 (talk) 14:45, 9 May 2019 (UTC) Fabio 9/5/19

Criminal Party page

I used the same translation for MTV and wikipedia both. I sent them the current translation before. But I created the biography, not them. What do I have to do ? Thanks for helping me. --Fab1966 (talk) 10:29, 3 May 2019 (UTC) Fabio 3/5/19

Hi Fab1966, have you given any "exclusive" rights to the website? Please carefully check your contract. Afterwards, if you did not give "exclusive" rights to anyone, wrote the text entirely yourself in your own words and would like to publish it on Wikipedia, please see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. Thanks ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:41, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi, I wrote again the buography. What do you think about it ? Thanks --Fab1966 (talk) 16:56, 6 May 2019 (UTC) Fabio 6/5/19

Hi Fab1966, thank you for the notification. Is there any update about the copyright? Have you sent an e-mail, for example? ~ ToBeFree (talk) 17:16, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

I could do it, but I didn't because I wrote it again. please, could you check it ? Thanks --Fab1966 (talk) 15:34, 7 May 2019 (UTC) Fabio 7/5/19

Hmm. Fab1966, I am unsure about this. The changes can be found at Special:Diff/895808513. If you wrote the original text, we can ignore all "close paraphrasing" issues if you take a moment to send the e-mail.
If you really would like to submit the article for review without releasing any rights to the original text, you may use the blue "Submit your draft for review!" button. This way, another reviewer can have a look too. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:44, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Ok, I'll send the e mail. But in the declaration they need to mention a link. Which one need I to include, the MTV one ? Thanks --Fab1966 (talk) 15:46, 7 May 2019 (UTC) 7/5/19 Fabio

Thank you, that solves the whole problem. Fab1966, for the text at Wikipedia:Declaration of consent for all enquiries, the "URL of the content" is the website that you have submitted your text to. If you wrote your text for MTV, it is the MTV page, for example https://mtvrock.com/2016/12/30/criminal-party/ . The "Exact URL of the page or file on Wikipedia" is https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Fab1966/sandbox&oldid=893329948 . ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:33, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi, I just the sent the declaration of the owner of the biography. What need I to publish it ? Thanks --Fab1966 (talk) 17:37, 8 May 2019 (UTC)Fabio 8/5/19

Fab1966: Sorry, I am not sure if I understand your message correctly. Have you sent the e-mail to permissions-enwikimedia.org? ~ ToBeFree (talk) 18:23, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes --Fab1966 (talk) 19:25, 8 May 2019 (UTC) Fabio 8/7/19

Perfect, Fab1966, thank you very much for taking the time to do this. We need to wait for an answer now. This can take about 50 days. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:04, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Bumping thread for 60 days. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:04, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

@Fab1966: If you would like me to submit the draft for review as soon as the e-mail has been read, please tell me "I would like to submit the draft for review as soon as possible" below. I will then wait and later do this for you. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Citation Barnstar
	This is belated, but I owe a debt of gratitude to ToBeFree for extensive assistance with some difficult citation issues. Much appreciated! Astro3.142 (talk) 18:47, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi Astro3.142, this is very kind, thank you very much – and of course you're welcome. Good luck with the further development of the article; I'm currently a bit busy but may later have a look at the new "help me" request. Someone else will likely be faster than me, though. I have skimmed the new conversation at Talk:Kai Staats; it's nice to see that Huon has joined us there.
Have a nice evening*
*your timezone may vary ;) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:03, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Amorphous solid

Thanks for finding my error in reverting a bad edit to a different bad edit in this article. It happens occasionally though I try to be alert to it. I suppose it can be apparent even when using Huggle that there is a previous bad edit - or at least a clue as to one - but I missed it here. I thought I would leave a special thanks for your alertness. For whatever reason, that problem remained in the article for about six weeks. I am a bit embarrassed about making a mistake that was left in place for that long but I am glad you fixed it. Donner60 (talk) 03:48, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi Donner60, no worries, you're welcome! The specific error had been mentioned by a user in the #wikipedia IRC channel on freenode. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 14:56, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Scilman: Artists Space

Hello,

On May 2nd, I contributed edits to the Artists Space wikipedia page and they were subsequently removed because of copyright violations. I mistakenly excluded quotations when paraphrasing the sources I cited. I do not believe that I copy/pasted any material, but it seems I was flagged for this. Further, I cited all of the sources I consulted, but I am wondering if I did this incorrectly?

Please advise me on how to fix my edits. I really want to help contribute to this page, as it is missing a lot of crucial information and is a noteworthy institution.

Thank you so much for your help!

Scilman (talk) 15:20, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

(waiting for a response by an administrator at User talk:Scilman) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 15:30, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

See User talk:Scilman ~ ToBeFree (talk) 19:03, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you both for your thoughtful explanations. I want to continue to edit the page, but I'm worried the content will be removed once more. Is it possible to submit a draft to you for your approval before posting? I want to make sure that there contains no copyright violations before publishing, and that I don't get blocked due to another violation.

Please let me know if this is possible.

Thank you! Scilman (talk) 20:59, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi Scilman, nice to meet you. First of all, I'd like to note that none of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines is meant to prevent you from improving the encyclopedia. This does not mean that we can ignore copyright laws, but the community normally encourages you to be bold in editing.

Sadly, I neither have the time nor ability to "approve" edits by doing extensive search for possible plagiation sources. While I can occasionally notice copyright violations, doing the opposite, a "non-violation" certification, is practically impossible and would give you a false feeling of security.

As long as you use your own words for normal text, and proper quotations for quoted sentences, there should be no problem. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:08, 8 May 2019 (UTC)